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Kara star

Watching “No exit” has been a weird and confusing experience. At some points I thought my head was going to explode. Yeah, this was a dense episode  with so much information that it was impossible to process all of it without a rewatch. Trying to absorb in less than 45 minutes 3000 years of cylon mythology is a hard task, right? ;)  But I found it fascinating.
We needed answers. And we got some of them. So I think this was a necessary episode; yeah, maybe this vomiting of exposition wasn’t the best way to do it -I am certainly not thrilled with it-, but I love some of the concepts and ideas hinted in “No Exit”…

What we learned from Anders. This is my take on cylon/human history… Frankly, after rewatching “No exit” I had to write a comprehensive cylon/human timeline…

*About 3000 years ago. The humans created the cylons on Kobol. Humans were punished by the gods and they were forced to abandon Kobol. The humans fleed to the Twelve Colonies and the cylons -the 13th tribe- headed to Earth. The 13th tribe settled on Earth and started procreating (and thus, the ability to download fell out of use).

*About 2000 years ago. The 13th tribe created their own centurions. The Final Five -who were supposed to be “especial cylons”- were warned by someone??? that the centurions would finally rebel if they were treated as slaves. That’s why the Final Five started working to rediscover the resurrection. Finally, the centurions rose against their masters and produced a nuclear holocaust. The 13th tribe was annihilated but the Final Five managed to upload their consciousness to a spaceship in Earth's orbit.

*The Final Five headed at sublight speed -because they haven’t developed jump drives- to the Colonies in order to warn the humans not to enslave the artificial life they were supposed to create at some point of their story (and thus, prevent the cycle of destruction from happening again).

*Approx. Year -10 to -20. The humans created the centurions in the colonies.

*Year 0. First Cylon War. The centurions rose against its creators and tried to create organic bodies (the first hybrids).

The Final Five arrived at Earth and made a deal with the centurions; they agreed to help them to create flesh bodies if they stopped the war. The centurions agreed and the Armistice began.

During this period of peace the Final Five developed eight humanoid models and gave them resurrection habilities. Cavil/John was the first model created and helped the Final Five to build the other models. But Cavil betrayed his creators and boxed them. He blocked their access to their memories and implanted them with false memories.

*Year 15-20. Tigh was unboxed and met Bill.

*Year 41. The Armistice is broken and the Colonies are nuked.

*Year 44ish. Present BSG time.

Well, a lot of information but, at least, the whole thing makes sense (much more sense than I expected, really ;p).

Kara and Sam. Well, I must confess that I was a little bit nervous with the Kara and Sam interaction in this episode. Frankly, I didn’t want to see a love declaration from Kara or anything similar because, at this point of the story and as I read Kara, it would have been out of character… But, after watching the episode, I must say that I didn’t find their scenes together shippy at all. What I saw instead was a woman worried -and scared- because her (former?) husband was in a life or death situation. And I saw a lot of guilt, too -typical Kara-.

    

I like Anders as a character and I hope he won't die... but really, I didn't see anything romantic in all the Sam/Kara interaction...

And, of course, let’s face it, Kara truly loves Sam. As RDM said in the podcast for this episode: “She’s always been in love with him to an extent, even when that’s been supplanted by her feelings for Lee Adama". Well, that’s it. Kara loves Sam, as Lee loved Dualla –and that is why I wasn’t really bothered by all the Dee/Lee interaction in “Sometimes a great notion”. But, as I think that both Lee and Kara loved their respective spouses, I also believe that their feelings for each other are deeper. They are soulmates. And I’m pretty confident that this is what we are going to learn at the end of the series. Yes, maybe Kara and Lee are not going to end up together -I’m increasingly convinced now that their ending is not going to be a happy one-, but I also believe that they will finally have to deal with their feelings. And if the show gives me the recognition of their love, their rightness and togetherness -even if they don’t end up together-, I think I will be happy. Besides, tragic and epic love stories with bittersweet endings have always been the most romantic for me… ;)
**Yeah, Cosette in her K/L optimistic zone of true and eternal love ;D**


Daniel. I’m very intrigued with him. Is he Kara’s father? This is the first thought that came to my mind when Sam talked about Daniel. I think that Kara recognizes the name, and so she says: “You are sure about the word, "Daniel"?”. Mmm… We will have to wait and see...

Lee. He is going to become the leader of the Fleet. As Laura points out, he has always been the right one. And I love how he acknowledges that they are a “fleet” now, because the old planets of the Colonies don’t exist anymore. They have to face this reality and find a new identity if they are going to survive as a civilization.

   
   

 Gratuitous Lee!Pics (because he can't help being frakking hot ;D)
Lee (in his awesone T-shirt of hotness -remember "Sine Qua Non"?-) + Power of Presidence = Irresistible Lee :
D


Ellen/Cavil. I loved the back and forth between Ellen and Cavil. Both Dean Stockwell and Kate Vernon were terrific in their roles. Cavil is a petulant, bitter and angry Cylon who wants to get some payback on Ellen and the other Final Five at any cost (did anyone notice the parallel between the reasoning of this character and Smith from “The Matrix”?). I love this dialogue:

Cavil: “I am not human (…). I’m a machine, and I could know much more. I could experience so much more. But I’m trapped in this absurd body. And why? Because my five creators thought that God wanted it that way”.
Ellen to Boomer: “You have something to say?”.
Boomer: “Don’t you feel the slightest bit of remorse for what you did to him? What you did to us?”.
Ellen: “No. Because he is wrong, Boomer. There is no need for remorse or blame. We didn’t limit you. We gave you something wonderful. Free will. The ability to think creatively. To reach out to others with compassion. To love”.
 

Boomer, Ellen and Cavil conversation was really interesting... And Boomer finally chose a side.

As I said before, I love the philosophical debate that was going on between Cavil and Ellen. Cavil blames Ellen and the Final Five for making him “flawed”, for making him “human”. And Ellen believes that all that imperfections contain the true essence of life: creativity, compassion, love. Free will.

And I think this is the ultimate message of this show. Is it that different being cylon or being human? What does make someone “human”?
BSG constantly questions our perceptions of the human race; we're continually challenged to give a reason why humanity deserves to survive. Are our qualities enough to outweigh our faults? This show portrays humanity as anything but simple or perfect; on the contrary, it proves us again and again that humans -and human relationships- are deeply flawed. As Ellen says, being human implies feeling petty emotions like anger, hate, jealousy and envy; but also means being capable of feeling pain, compassion and emotion… It implies to love and be loved; to choose the way you want to live, the way you want to die, who you want to love.

Free will
.

The choices we all make define who we are. And I truly think this concept is going to play a key role in the endgame of this show. Are we doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again? Are we destined to destroy ourselves? Can humanity stop the circle of violence?  I’m pretty sure that, at the end, all these characters will finally have to face their own fears, doubts and feelings, and choose. Because this is what BSG is about.

Life or death. War or peace. Guilt or redemption. Love or hate. Fate or free will.

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Comments

( 17 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]snowdark wrote:
Feb. 15th, 2009 04:37 pm (UTC)
Tía q me lo he bajado pero no encuentro subtítulos, d dónde los bajas tú??? van lentos subtitulando en los dos sitios q he mirado cullons!!!!!!!!!! T________T pero bueno q me he enterado más o menos d todo jaajajajaa

Por partes:

- q fuerte la Ellen, la cara q he puesto cuando empieza el episodio diciéndote q es ella la Cylon sacrificada....buena manera d empezar el episodio!!!! PUM!!!!

- Todavía no encajo Six + el Coronel jajajaa

- Yo tampoco noté amor entre Sam y Kara.....LEE ES SU VERDADERO AMOR CULLLONS. Pobre Sam eso si... Q INFO IBA A REVELAR?

- PERO A VER, ELLEN ES LA MADRE D TODOS??? como está sin subtítulos seguro q me pierdo cosas. Ella tiene el secreto d la resurrección tb???

- Boomer no es tan puta!!! MENOS MAAAAAAAAAL

- q le pasa a la nave?

SOCORRO.

Edited at 2009-02-15 04:37 pm (UTC)
[info]cosetteferaud wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 12:20 am (UTC)
En general yo me bajo los subtítulos de [info]frak_toasters, que es una community en español de BSG. Suelen colgar los links para descargarse el capítulo y los subtítulos los sábados por la mañana (eso sí, para poder ver el post donde cuelgan los links tienes que ser parte de la community, porque está protegido).

Lo de Ellen es muy bueno, y la verdad es que esta nueva Ellen me encanta... Y toda la conversación que tiene con Cavil es súper interesante... Espero que el final de la serie hable de todos esos grandes temas como "libre albedrío vs destino", el verdadero significado de ser humano y amar realmente a alguien, y todas esas cosa tan bonitas de las que una buena historia épica que se precie debe hablar ;D

Lo de Tigh y Six lo veo un poco rarito, la verdad (son monos y tal, pero es que él le saca por lo menos 30 años xxxD).

Respecto a Sam y Kara... había mucho debate por el LJ acerca de sus escenas juntos, sobre si Kara está o no enamorada de él y ahora que está a las puertas de la muerte se da cuenta... Bueno, yo creo que Kara quiere a Sam, por supuesto (es su marido!!!), pero Lee es su amor forever and ever (y lo vamos a ver ;D).

En serio, ¿te has enterado de algo sin subtítulos? (yo me he tenido que volver a pasar ciertos trozos para enterarme de la historia...). Es todo muy coherente, pero dan mucha información y es un poco agobiante a ratos. Te explico lo de Ellen. Ellen y el resto de los finals five construyeron a los 8 modelos cylon (así que sí, hasta cierto punto, es la madre de todos ellos), y les dio también la capacidad de resucitar. Por cierto, te has dado cuenta de lo retorcido de la relación de Cavil y Ellen? (ella es su "madre" y él se la tira en New Caprica... xxD. Son detalles como estos que me hacen flipar con esta serie ;))

Ay, pobrecita Boomer... Me ha gustado lo que ha hecho (y ahora se va a encontrar con Tyrol en Galactica???).

Y la nave se está haciendo pedazos... Galactica es una nave vieja, y piensa que esta gente lleva 4 años vagando por el espacio y sufriendo día sí día también los ataques de los cylon... Yo creo que al final Galactica será destruida (y la verdad es que me parece un final muy coherente con el tono de la historia...). Da penita, pero creo que es como debe acabar...
[info]snowdark wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 12:47 am (UTC)
JAJAJA TO TB LO PENSÉEEEEE "es su madre y se la tiró en Nueva Cáprica"??? Ellen mola es verdad. Ay Boomer!!!!! ara q lo dices, creo q sería ideal si ella y Tyrol volvieran a estar juntosssssssssssss!!!!!!!!! y no, Kara + Sam = no hay kímicaaaaaaa

La historia d los Cylons es muy interesante, y me han molado las explicaciones q han dado. No sé, está bien atado! normal q vayan a acabar pronto la serie, si la alargan más se la cargarían....pero da penica.
[info]cosetteferaud wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 12:51 am (UTC)
normal q vayan a acabar pronto la serie, si la alargan más se la cargarían....pero da penica.

Uff! Me va a dar una pena el día que acabe... Estoy convencida de que el final va a ser bastante dramático, y entre eso y que la serie se acaba... sniff!
[info]workerbee73 wrote:
Feb. 15th, 2009 10:51 pm (UTC)
I really like this, cosette. I think it's the most cohesive take on this episode I've read so far. I really appreciate the K/S perspective-- I alas, was not so mature about their quality time.... But I think you're right, she absolutely loves Sam, but it's not the same as Lee-- and wouldn't it be wonderful if the K/L connection was somehow tied to the whole big scheme of Love and Free Will they're setting up? I SO want them to be part of the mythology.

BTW, I'm really happy about the Free Will showdown they're setting up. *g*

Good catch on The Matrix similarities. They're both dealing with a lot of similar questions.

On a shallow note: That last pic of Lee is TOTALLY adorable. I am so ready for him to be the President of Everything. : D

[info]cosetteferaud wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 10:10 pm (UTC)
But I think you're right, she absolutely loves Sam, but it's not the same as Lee

As RDM says in the podcast for this episode: “She’s always been in love with him to an extent”. The “to an extent” part is really significant, in my opinion. Yes, of course she loves him –they have shared so much and have been married for more than two years-, but the only one who has always owned Kara's heart is Lee. And the same goes for Lee and Dee, of course.

wouldn't it be wonderful if the K/L connection was somehow tied to the whole big scheme of Love and Free Will they're setting up?

Oh, please, please… I really hope so!!! As we always say, Kara and Lee are a whole microcosm within the show, and that's why I believe that a part of the ultimate message of BSG (love, free will and the meaning of being “human”) should be delivered through their relationship.

I'm really happy about the Free Will showdown

I actually squeed when Ellen said the words to Boomer! ;)

Good catch on The Matrix similarities

I love The Matrix!!! (and Mr. Cosette is an absolute fan!! ;p).

That last pic of Lee is TOTALLY adorable

Well, I though that Lee was so cute in that scene with Laura! He was clearly touched by Laura’s words… And I loved the bit where he said that he’d try to be smarter and wronger. ABSOLUTELY ADORABLE. LOL!

the President of Everything

Hee! So true! Lee could be the perfect president, vicepresident, admiral, representative of the whole Quorum, CAG, husband, lover, best friend... (Kara, what are you waiting for?? lol!)
[info]thrace_adama wrote:
Feb. 15th, 2009 11:20 pm (UTC)
Great post, girl! I really like your view of the show. And thanks so much for the timeline. I was really confused when I watched the ep the first time, and it's definitely helpful to have it broken down for me! :) It was nice to finally have all those answers, even if it meant a *lot* of exposition.

But, as I think that both Lee and Kara loved their respective spouses, I also believe that their feelings for each other are deeper. They are soulmates.

I completely agree with this. I didn't find the Kara/Sam scenes shippy. However, I am a bit upset that Sam is now neither dead nor OK. I don't hate Sam and wouldn't be joyful if he died, but I'm worried that his being brain-dead will weigh Kara down with more guilt and that it will keep her from Lee. So I guess I just want that wrapped up one way or another. And I don't care about the character enough to be upset if they do pull the plug (thought Trucco was great, and Sam actually had an interesting story for once!). I don't know, I'm trying to stay optimistic about it, and I like that you are too!

Daniel is interesting, totally. As soon as I heard he was an artist, I thought he'd turn out to be Kara's dad, but I guess we'll just have to see. I have to admit that I really don't want Kara to be even half Cylon. She's just so...human...that I feel taking that away from her would take something away from how we've known her since the mini.

The Lee/Laura scene was my favorite of the night! Loved it! You guys were so right about it--that scene definitely just made me fall even more in love with the guy. Guh. (And thanks for the screencaps! I could stare all day...)

Ellen was great! I'm actually liking her very much as the final Cylon. And the revelations about Cavil/John were cool, too, because he has always seemed to see himself as a little superior to the others. Now we know why!
[info]cosetteferaud wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 11:04 pm (UTC)
it was nice to finally have all those answers, even if it meant a *lot* of exposition

The first time I watched the episode I was “what the frak”?? But after I rewatched it, I was surprised that all made sense… and it was really interesting. But I agree with you, it was a very dense episode (not my favorite for sure, but a necessary episode, I guess).

However, I am a bit upset that Sam is now neither dead nor OK.

I know you are worried about that… but I have the feeling that Sam will eventually wake up. And I like Sam as a character -and as a person… He is such a good guy that, even if I am a hardcore K/L shipper I can't help but liking him ;)- but, being honest, at this point of the story I must admit that I want Kara to get rid of him as soon as possible... ;)

She's just so...human...that I feel taking that away from her would take something away from how we've known her since the mini.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean… In fact, all that “Kara and her especial destiny” storyline has always bothered me a little bit… My favorite Kara is S1 and S2 Kara... the careless, reckless and hot-shot pilot that was all flesh, life, pain and intensity… so human. And even if I really appreciate character development and growth, I am not especially thrilled by Kara being a cylon or a goddess… But girl, now I have resigned myself because Kara’s especialness is so obvious… And well, the good part of this storyline could be how the show plays out the connection between Kara’s especialness versus Lee's lack of especialness (especially taking into account that Sam is also “especial”).

The Lee/Laura scene was my favorite of the night!

I just knew you would love it! Don’t you think that Lee was absolutely adorable?? (all moved and teary-eyed and so cute! **sighs**) ;D

And yeah, I loved new Ellen and all the explanation they gave us about Cavil and his inner motivations… Plus, Cavil and Ellen’s relationship is fascinating! (OMG, Ellen is like his mother and he frakked her in New Caprica to get revenge… It so twisted and awesome at the same time!).
[info]thrace_adama wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 02:05 am (UTC)
I like Sam as a character -and as a person… He is such a good guy that, even if I am a hardcore K/L shipper I can't help but liking him ;)- but, being honest, at this point of the story I must admit that I want Kara to get rid of him as soon as possible... ;)

As a person, I love Sam! But he hasn't added much to the story until now (in my opnion, obviously), so I've just not grown attached to him. Plus, he has gotten in the way of my ship! And like you said, at this point in the story we just want K/S tied up soon so that we get more K/L! :)

My favorite Kara is S1 and S2 Kara... the careless, reckless and hot-shot pilot that was all flesh, life, pain and intensity… so human.

EXACTLY. But you're right, it's clear now that Kara's special destiny can't be denied at this point so best just to go with it! And you're also SO RIGHT that the destiny/free will and special/non-special stuff could play a big role in the end for Kara and Lee, and that would definitely be cool.

Don’t you think that Lee was absolutely adorable?? (all moved and teary-eyed and so cute! **sighs**) ;D

Oh, he really was! You and bee were so right--that scene was just great. *sighs with you*

Hahahaha, I KNOW! Cavil sleeping with his mother figure! So wrong but also awesome for its twistedness, I agree! LOL. What does this show do to us?!! ;)

[info]cosetteferaud wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 10:11 pm (UTC)
But he hasn't added much to the story until now

I’m with you here. For me, Sam has always been a plot device to throw more angst to Lee and Kara’s relationship (so please, I want K/S to be over ASAP because I want some K/L before the finale ***fingers crossed***)

What does this show do to us?!!

HAHAHA! We all have twisted minds!!! (hey, we are in love with a couple who says “I love you” beating the shit out of each other! LOL).
[info]smact46 wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 01:23 am (UTC)
""I think that both Lee and Kara loved their respective spouses, I also believe that their feelings for each other are deeper. They are soulmates. And I’m pretty confident that this is what we are going to learn at the end of the series. Yes, maybe Kara and Lee are not going to end up together -I’m increasingly convinced now that their ending is not going to be a happy one-, but I also believe that they will finally have to deal with their feelings. And if the show gives me the recognition of their love, their rightness and togetherness -even if they don’t end up together-, I think I will be happy. Besides, tragic and epic love stories with bittersweet endings have always been the most romantic for me… ;)""

What a great episode review. I couldn't agree more. As for the section that I have quoted above, I could add nothing more. I wish that I had said it that's all.



[info]cosetteferaud wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 11:31 pm (UTC)
Oh, I'm so glad you liked my take on the episode! (and thank you for letting me know, I really appreciate it! ;)).
And yeah, by now I think that all Lee and Kara's fans are perfectly aware that their love story is not going to have a happily ever after ending, right? For me, they have always been the one true epic love story of the show and, taking into account that epic stories tend to end tragically, I am positive that their story will have a bittersweet and poignant ending... And it is not bad, I'm prepared to have my heart broken... However, if we finally get the recognition of Kara and Lee's love and unbreakable bond, I think I will be able to say goodbye to my show with a smile on my face ;).
(hey!, and sorry for the rambling, I'm really wordy when it comes to Lee and Kara! ;)).
[info]daybreak777 wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 08:30 pm (UTC)
Your timeline is awesome. It's going into my own personal canon. Thank you!

Edited at 2009-02-16 08:31 pm (UTC)
[info]cosetteferaud wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 11:35 pm (UTC)
Hee! Glad to be of service! ;) (Frankly, after all that massive downpour of information I needed a cohesive take on cylon history...)
[info]cattm wrote:
Feb. 16th, 2009 09:47 pm (UTC)
Oh, thank you so much for doing that timeline. It makes much more sense to me now. There was just so much information to take in during this episode.

I agree with you regarding Kara and Sam, I didn't see this at all as a threat to Kara and Lee. In fact, I'd be pretty upset if Kara let Sam fend for his own in this situation, after everything that they have been through together, and all the times that he has been there for her. I'm a little bit disappointed that she didn't listen to him more and gave him a few more minutes before the surgery, but that is an impossible choice to make, there is no right or wrong alternative really.

I really liked the interaction between Ellen and Cavil as well.

Sorry I haven't commented much lately, I'll try to do better in the upcoming weeks. I enjoy reading your posts even when I don't comment. :)
[info]cosetteferaud wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 12:04 am (UTC)
Oh, thank you so much for doing that timeline.

You are welcome! ;) (there was so much information in this ep that I needed a timeline or something similar to have a cohesive take on cylon mythology...).

I'm a little bit disappointed that she didn't listen to him more and gave him a few more minutes before the surgery, but that is an impossible choice to make, there is no right or wrong alternative really.

Yeah... But I liked that Kara seemed so supportive and caring... As you say, there wasn't a romantic interaction going on between them, and she had to be there with Sam... Even if Kara is in love with Lee, Sam is his husband, and her marriage has been an important thing in her life (and of course that Kara also loves Sam).

I really liked the interaction between Ellen and Cavil as well.

I enjoyed their dialogue a lot, actually. And their relationship is so twisted... Dean Stockwell's performance was brilliant. I completely bought him as this vengeful and angry child with the physical appearance of a mature man... and gosh! Ellen is Cavil/Jonh's mother and he frakked her in New Caprica to take revenge!! (how perverse was that?? but also really fitting with all the Greek mythology of the show).

Sorry I haven't commented much lately

Oh, hon, no needs for sorries!!! RL is really demanding sometimes! ;) (I enjoy LJ very much, but sometimes it is just impossible to keep up with all posts, and comment and read everything... so please, don't worry at all!!! ;)).
[info]mindoppressor wrote:
Feb. 18th, 2009 11:50 pm (UTC)
"How to learn cylon mythology in 45 minutes". Good title, heee. I felt pretty much like you: there were tons of info, but it was completely necessary. It wasn't boring, though. Trucco acted his aphasia convincingly and, taking profit of the breaks he needs to rest, we were also given a break to process all the data. Nonetheless, I also had to watch it twice to catch all the details...

Kara and Sam. Don't worry about them. They're not endangering the K/L at all. What Kara does for Sam is what anybody would do for a... friend?

Lee and Laura. They're cute, aren't they? Lee is (even) better as episodes go by, no matter how little he appears. However, he said something this time that bothers me. It is when Roslin tells him about not doing the fairest thing but the smartest thing. Ok, Lee is the personification of doing the right thing; if he begins to do the “smart" thing... he will stop being an idealist and will be just a simple and horrible politician! (like Roslin). I don't want that!!! Ò_ó

Daniel! That's the big new issue of BSG. What I find most funny is that everything comes from a mistake of the writers in assigning a number to the cylons: "OMG! We have thirteen cylons because we skipped the seventh! What the frak can we do now?". But they have sorted it out quite elegantly, like the cylon history in general. I must confess that I was expecting the explanation to be...crappy. It was not out of personal pleasure or lack of belief in the writers; it was because everything was so absolutely messy that the only possible thing to do seemed to cock it all up. It has not been the case and, in general, it creates (in my case) new expectations for a coherent final.

My favourite part of the chapter was the dialogue between John (sorry, father Cavil ;p) and Ellen, the good hearted final fifth. I was expecting her character to behave as the classical (and demode) mwa-ha-ha type, so it was a pleasant surprise to find her so in love with our human flaws. Their interaction enriched Cavil as a character -we finally come understand his motivations. And I absolutely loooooooooooooove your reference to Mr Smith. "The Matrix" is my absolute number 1 of EVERYTHING of all time, and Smith is a total baddass!!:D In fact, in the first movie he gives Morpheus a speech very similar to Cavil's. That has made me love Cavil even more; he’s a motherfrakker...literally! I also love Leoben; hmmm... do I have a problem?;p
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